Exclusive Interview With Adrian Joffe: He And Wakubo Rei Are The Embodiment Of Each Other.

Adrian Joffe is very sensitive to weight: "I've gained 10 pounds in the past five years, but I spent 6 months to lose them.

It's not easy to keep fit at my age. "

Indeed, he was born in 1953 when he was born in 1953, though Adrian looks much younger than his real age.

As to how to keep fit, Adrian Joffe's method is very traditional. He practises boxing and chooses the way of walking as much as possible. At the same time, this is also a way to adjust his psychological state. But as president of COMME des GAR ONS (hereinafter referred to as CDG) and the Dover buyer Street Market (hereinafter referred to as DSM), it is not very easy to get such an opportunity: "I work very hard, but sometimes I am too busy to exercise. After a long time, my mood will become very bad and begin to curse at the company".

Judging from its Instagram, Adrian Joffe's recent journeys are very close, from Paris, London, New York to Seoul, and now it starts in China with CDG perfume, and comes to Beijing, and constantly accepts a series of media interviews, followed by a tour of shops and business visits. Besides, he also pays much attention to diet: "yes, I am on a diet, but I do not mind eating, what I want to eat, but what I eat is very small."

About Adrian Joffe's food intake, the famous fashion critic Vanessa Friedman in 2014 for the British Financial Times, "lunch with FT: Adrian Joffe" has a specific description: Adrian Joffe then ordered three mini Italy dumplings made of main dish, when he saw the salmon fish platter on the table, jokingly said: "you see, your former dish is bigger than my main course weight."

In addition to preventing psychological problems from the physical level, Adrian Joffe also tried to achieve spiritual peace through Buddhist Zen and meditation: "I can not say that I am a devout Buddhist, but I quite agree with the philosophy, such as causality."

When he was young, he studied at the Asian and African College of University of London, majoring in orient and Tibet culture.

But unfortunately, before the end of his studies, the college decided to stop teaching because he was the only student.

Adrian Joffe then came to Tokyo to help her sister Rose Joffe.

Company management

Authorization matters.

In 1987, he got acquainted with Wakubo Rei, who was already famous, and then became the commercial director of the brand.

In 1993, he was promoted to President.

At the same time, Adrian Joffe and Wakubo Rei formally married in 1992, but the two have always maintained a different marriage relationship: he is in Paris, she is in Tokyo.

Unlike other couples in the fashion world, they rarely share exposure, do not eat with celebrities or even enjoy art collections: "appreciation or like art does not mean possessive, if we want to see art exhibitions, there are art galleries".

In most articles describing Adrian Joffe, he has always been described as the business leader of CDG and DSM, and the man behind Wakubo Rei, led by him, has created a series of masterpieces of business creation.

But is Adrian Joffe just a businessman? Or is it just the design of a wife who acts as an interpreter and spokesperson for a poorly spoken, rarely interviewed design? But I'm afraid no one will regard him as a pure businessman, just like Pharrell Williams, who once launched the "Girl" fragrance of water with CDG, said: "money can't produce good ideas, but good ideas can generate money." Adrian Joffe and Wakubo Rei may be the incarnation of each other in the world.

Reporter: Dover Street Market in New York, London and Tokyo are independent operators, but when they entered China in 2010, why did they choose to cooperate with I.T and renamed I.T Beijing Market?

In Adrian Joffe:1982, COMME des GAR ONS and Hongkong's Joyce boutique began to work together. Joyce Ma (the founder of Joyce Boutique) was China's first buyer of our goods, and our partnership lasted for many years, but she never wanted to be an independent selling shop with us.

Later, I.T contacted us, saying that they also opened up a buyer's shop and loved CDG, but I refused them all the time, because we were exclusive with Joyce, but Shen Jiawei of I.T insisted on coming to us every quarter. I also insisted on saying no to him. The result was six or seven years, and I began to pity them. This is a joke. I was moved by their insistence, and they were willing to cooperate in opening up the exclusive store of CDG, which led to the store which was later opened on the Lan Lan street in Hongkong (opened in March 2007, which is CDG's fourth global store). Later, the store moved to snow Factory Street in central.

A few years later, I.T and I said that we wanted to open the Dover Street Market in the mainland of China. They said it would be in Shanghai. All the brands would go to Shanghai first. I said no, it was going to be in Beijing. As a result, I persuaded them, and they found the right place (Beijing Sanlitun Taigu North).

But in the mainland of China, opening Dover Street Market directly will have some difficulties, especially for those who are not familiar with us, it may cause some cognitive problems, so it would be much better if we want to change the name to I.T Beijing Market.

At the same time, we insist on controlling and designing the whole store for its creativity. I.T also respects our principles. Besides, they also have the first-class human resources and service level.

The situation in this store is very difficult in the first two years, but it has improved a lot now.

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Reporter: COMME des GAR ONS, besides the fashion series, is the most popular perfume product, and has dozens of branches and cooperation series. But I heard that Mrs. Wakubo Rei actually hated the designer's brand launched the same name perfume series at the beginning. How did you convince her?

Adrian Joffe: it's very simple. I told her that you don't need to know perfume, and you don't need to know about the front and the incense. Most Japanese do not understand this. You can leave this part of the problem to me, you can design perfume bottles and boxes, and you don't need to test the traditional perfume design, you can be careless and free to design the way you want.

She agreed, but just emphasized to me that she did not want perfume to be mediocre, and she wanted a distinctive flavor. So I began to start my fragrance in Paris, and she was responsible for packaging design.

Perfume is introduced because I want people to understand that COMME des GAR ONS is not just fashion, she has many ways to express it.

Reporter: you started the brand authorization. You authorized the COMME des GAR ONS perfume to the Spanish fashion, perfume production and channel distributor. At the same time, CDG also has the right to design, produce and sell perfume. How did you conceive of such a cooperative relationship (Partial License, part of the authorization)?

Adrian Joffe: they found me and said they really liked the perfume of COMME des GAR ONS. They thought they were very creative and wanted brand authorization.

At the beginning, I was hesitant. On the one hand, you know that this kind of authorization really helps the large area sales of products, but at the same time, we lose control and even destroy the brand image.

On the other hand, I am really interested in their huge sales channels, so I put forward such a way of cooperation. I put the trademark rights of COMME des GAR ONS Parfum to PUIG, and we ourselves make another product line called COMME des GAR ONS Parfum Parfum, and continue adhering to the previous anti perfume strategy - you take your channel, I sell my creativity, complement each other and not interfere.

Reporter: besides Ms. Wakubo Rei's own perfume packaging, did you find a graphic designer or team like Marc Atlan and Petronio Associates to design perfume packaging?

Adrian Joffe: I remember almost 20 years ago, Marc Atlan helped us design the outer packaging of one or two perfume products; Petronio Associates was responsible for the 71.

But Wakubo Rei accounted for the overwhelming majority.

Reporter: compared with other brands, CDG and DSM have always maintained a more cautious market movement whether they are for company size or strategy. So far, their Japanese companies and international divisions are still private enterprises. You also want the brand to maintain a "Poor Luxury" state. So what do you think of the practice of other brands in the mainland of China in the past few years? Now, with the slowdown in sales, some shops have been closed.

Adrian Joffe: indeed, we do not have high advertising costs, nor do we want to induce consumers to buy our products through extensive publicity. We hope that customers can choose independently. We have no shareholders, and we can not get the profit growth rate of 10% or 20% times a year.

But I don't think this is a good thing. Their past avarice is letting them eat their own bitter fruit. Many people will not agree with me.

These companies may also feel that it doesn't matter. Dozens of homes are open today and more than a dozen homes will be closed tomorrow. They and we are not a world at all. COMME des GAR ONS has chosen a more organic way, nor has it set up any five year development plan. We haven't even planned for five months.

Reporter: even if such short-term development plan is not done?

Adrian Joffe: you may sometimes go quarterly, or at most think about what you expect in the next year.

We make strategic plans, but do not do market research. I believe I.T will not do it. The fashion industry is changing so fast that it is hard to predict, but some enterprises are always ignoring this, causing them to go from bad to worse nowadays.

But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter much to us. Do you think it's bad for the whole industry system to open a shop on a large scale now? And at least in China, it may have a little impact on employment.

COMME des GAR ONS Play series t-shirts

Interviewer: I think a lot of Commercial Pieces will have more adverse effects on brands, and at some time they will bring huge profits, but at the same time, they will cause some damage to the hard-built brand image. But here, the COMME des GAR ONS Play series launched in the "Non-Fashion" concept is well sold in China, and is regarded as one of the key product lines of brand profitability. Many consumers confuse the T-shirts and the main line series with the words "Play" and "peach hearts" and even mistakenly believe that the Play series represents all of the CDG. As a conception and launch the head of this series, what do you think of it?

Adrian Joffe: indeed, we are worried about this.

COMME des GAR ONS is a brand that emphasizes change. Our design is quite different every quarter. But at the same time, we want to try to make a series continue unchanged, that is, the design without design, so Play is born.

Play is so popular now that many people understand COMME des GAR ONS through it. We are a little worried about whether these customers will further understand the core values of the brand.

　　其實這樣的問題不僅是在中國，在韓國，Play系列也是極度受歡迎，我們在那里的合作伙伴希望盡可能地多開Play店鋪，并且以三個月一家的速度增長，如今韓國已經有12家Play店鋪了——這有點瘋狂，可能會給人造成“Play等于COMME des GAR?ONS全部”的錯誤印象，所以我們決定如果對方還想繼續(xù)開Play店鋪，就必須同時把品牌的其他產品線一并銷售，比如Play搭上COMME des GAR?ONS COMME des GAR?ONS(女裝副線)，或者COMME des GAR?ONS Shirts(以襯衣為主打的分支)/Girls(主打年輕女性顧客)，如今在韓國我們有三家這樣的店鋪，在香港的銅鑼灣也有一家同時賣COMME des GAR?ONS COMME des GAR?ONS的Pocket店鋪(售賣Play、Wallet、香水等“口袋大小“單品的店鋪，同時也有專門系列)。

Yes, the Play series is also super super popular in Bangkok. We recently opened the COMME des GAR ONS COMME des GAR, ONS plus gamma series store in Siam Discovery shopping center. At the beginning, we were worried that the series would occupy more than 80% sales. But the data of these stores in Seoul and Bangkok showed that the average sales of 65% came from the fashion series, and 35% came from the Hongkong series.

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In 2005, CDG launched a guerrilla store "CDG +49221" in Cologne, Germany, which was formerly a meat shop, and was reformed by Chewing The Sun, a graphic design studio in Germany.

Reporter: from a series of Guerrilla guerrilla shops of COMME des GAR ONS, which is famous for limiting the daily consumption of customers, the location of unconventional sites, and only one year's opening, and some distribution rights of perfume series to Dover Street Market, you boil down this concept to "Creative Business Idea".

In Adrian Joffe:2004, CDG's first Guerrilla (guerrilla store) opened in Berlin, Germany. At that time, the fashion industry was also facing a downturn. For example, the brands such as Gap and UNIQLO began to become popular. People thought that the end of fashion industry was coming. So I think people who are not in the fashion industry can participate in guerrilla stores because different perspectives can bring different reactions.

We put the goods in the shop of illustrators and architects to see what the results can be.

In the past seven or eight years, we have opened about 37 guerrilla shops. Some of them are very good. Some of them are not very good. When we opened the guerrilla shop in Iceland, we worked with four artists, but it turned out to be unreasonable. Finally, when they returned the goods they sold, they were basically the same as the quantity we sent them.

But that store is beautiful. It's a good image promotion.

It is interesting that when we decided to open the Dover Street Market, some people thought it was a guerrilla shop, and ran to ask me how you opened the shop for a year. It has not been shut for a year. I spent many years telling them that this is not a guerrilla shop. It costs too much to do this shop, and it can not be closed in one year.

Reporter: as far as I know, Ms. Wakubo Rei has some control over the company's strategy. For example, she will designate the brand of Dover Street Market online sales (although it is under a website structure, but different brands of online stores sell in different regions, and China has not yet opened online sales service). What will you do when there is a divergence of opinions?

Adrian Joffe: we have arguments every day, but now she's basically giving up arguing with me because I can't compete with me.

With regard to COMME des GAR ONS, she has an absolute right to speak. But as for other brands, she will leave me with decisions. She is very busy and can not be totally concerned. If she meets something she does not like, such as what brand I choose to cooperate with, what I want to put on the Internet, she may not say anything publicly, but she will accuse me, and I choose to ignore her. This is the only way to balance our relationship, ha ha.

But joking is a joke. I will consult her when it comes to visual problems.

Interviewer: is that your advice from young designers such as Gosha Rubchinskiy?

Adrian Joffe: Yes.

At the beginning, she didn't understand why I wanted to cooperate with Gosha and why he helped him make clothes in Russia. She didn't think Gosha's works were very creative. After all, our perspectives were different, so I had to convince her that she would benefit from the support of such designer brand for Dover Street Market, starting from the overall pattern of the fashion industry, and I myself went to Moscow to see Gosha, and to understand his background and so on.

Rei is not a patient person. If you don't understand her in five minutes, she won't listen.

It took her three years to cooperate with Gosha to realize that my decision was correct.

But there are some things that she hasn't allowed me to do at the moment. For example, I want to put Play on Japanese websites, sell Black series to the Internet, etc., but she is my absolute leader in content and electricity supplier.

Reporter: what touched you on Gosha Rubchinskiy?

Adrian Joffe: I noticed his photography first, because I was very interested in the history of the post Soviet era.

I met him at a party in Moscow. He was mixed up with a group of skateboard youth. I asked him what he was doing. He said skateboards and made T-shirts. I said we had a store in London, maybe we could sell it in your T-shirt later.

We had a good time. He showed me his T-shirt and the pictures he took. I liked it very much.

Later, the Russian garment factory, which originally made t-shirts for him, went bankrupt, and we began to become his maker. Then he said he wanted to be a fashion show. I found that he could tell stories and express his own things through these stories.

Reporter: what do you think of the upsurge of youth culture and subculture triggered by Vetements, Gosha Rubchinskiy, or the upsurge of media interpretation? For this reason, many voices now say that subculture has been overconsumed and become less interesting.

Adrian Joffe: This is dangerous. Not only the subculture, but the media will make everything boring.

Young people nowadays do not read much.

Especially those who are not highly educated are easily misled by the media.

We should reconsider the issue of education, as Hilary Clinton said, education is very important.

Reporter: but learning without thinking is useless. Many people have high academic qualifications but are still not good at thinking.

Adrian Joffe: Yes, some of them work with me. Their visual works are well done, and there are many channels to get information. But in my observation, they lack real creativity or insight. I have begun to worry about my nephew. What kind of world do they have to face? Of course, the society still has many opportunities and potential, but at the same time, it is also a bit scary.

Reporter: I heard that James Jebbia, founder of Supreme, was very angry. He put together the Supreme retail space and Prada display device designed by DSM shop in New York.

Adrian Joffe: he is a tough guy. It's hard to do, but I respect him very much. He has a strong mind.

That time almost made me cry. He chattered with me. Why Prada's display device was put together with Supreme? I told him that this is the principle of Dover Street Market. We will not tell the brand who will be next to it.

James Jebbia thinks it's unfair for us to do this because we ask that other brands' retail space backboard can't be as high as the ceiling, but it allows Prada to do that, but that's because Prada's space is close to the elevator. We feel that this special case can make them break the case. As a result, James keeps telling me to withdraw from Dover Street Market, and I say, then you go away - three days later, he came running to tell me that it was also good because many customers would go to the position of Supreme after visiting the Prada position, which helped them increase their traffic volume.

But for the other two days, he was so hard on me that he didn't say anything about it. He owed me an apology.

Reporter: in the past few days, the United Kingdom declared itself detached from the European Union. I have seen in the relevant reports that you are very dissatisfied with this report and even said "go fuck democracy". How do you think of the democracy in fashion today? After all, the fashion industry has been led by a few people for a long time in a long time. But with the rise of the Internet, social media and KOL, all of this has changed.

Adrian Joffe: sorry, I used dirty words. When they announced the news, I was furious.

Democracy is not so good in imagination. Look at the present Britain, look at the United States - Donald Trump is likely to win, and the Russians like him. Putin likes him.

If you change to China, do you want him to be elected? This is not a good thing for a educated person.

The same is true in fashion circles. Nowadays, this kind of participation has advantages and disadvantages. On the one hand, it really helps talented people to stand out, such as Susie Bubble, Bryanboy, etc. you send some photos on the social network and make some interesting comments, so you have the chance to get recognition from you.

As Andy Warhol said before, everyone has five minutes to become famous in the future.

But at the same time, there are a group of almost illiterate people on the top of it - I seem to feel that there is a company that specializes in hiring those idiots who say nothing nutritious. I think we need to control this.

But this is also a process. In the process of change, there will always be runaway time, but it can not be avoided.

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In 2008, COMME des GAR ONS and H&M jointly launched men's and women's wear series.

Reporter: when it comes to change, many brands and designers complain that fast fashion is more destructive than fashion to fashion industry. But in your past interviews, I see that you do not seem to be particularly disgusted with fast fashion.

Adrian Joffe: No, we don't like fast fashion at all.

Reporter: but COMME des GAR ONS launched a series of cooperation with H&M in 2008.

Adrian Joffe: because we should also consider it from the practical point of view.

But compared to the popular show buying mode they are advocating now, I would rather be fast fashion - See Now, Buy Now - it sounds really like a twister, and sounds a bit like Red Lorry Yellow Lorry (the British rear swing band).

Reporter: why is it so disgusted that show is bought?

Adrian Joffe: This is a fundamentally intolerable mode. If you want to do it according to this mode, there will be no need for fashion critics or media in the future. The opinions of buyers and shop managers are not important. They are all handed over to some idiot in a company to decide.

Just as I disapprove of extreme democracy, I do not agree with this other extreme dictatorship.

In contrast, fast fashion is all about making pink skirts. They go to pink skirts, but they always go forward one season after another. I don't think it has much impact.

Reporter: Jean Touitou of A.P.C also disagrees with the show that he buys. He said this is the trick of the brand to the media.

Adrian Joffe: I love Jean. He can always see the nature of things.

Perhaps some companies feel that they can find out which products will be popular through market research, they can advance to the shelves, but they are hard to adjust. What else do they do to emphasize the particularity of fashion itself?

Interviewer: you don't like Pre-Collections, too.

Adrian Joffe: that's awful.

Anyway, COMME des GAR ONS does not do it.

Reporter: when fashion became popular, some people once said that the advanced custom fashion had no significance. Now these show series have become the main force, but this seems to make the main garment series become a new generation of advanced customization.

Adrian Joffe: that's right.

Now they spend a lot of money on the early autumn and holiday series of fashion shows, and 70% of the budget is used for the pre show series, which I think is rubbish.

Reporter: at present, Vetements is almost the hottest fashion brand. Demna Gvasalia's first series of men's and women's clothing for Balenciaga is also published. How do you think he resemble the past reformers, such as Martin Margiela and Helmut Lang? Or do you think he can become the leader of this era?

Adrian Joffe: he used to work for Margiela. Naturally there are many similarities between them. If I heard the gossip correctly, Margiela herself also felt that Vetements was very much like her own.

Vetements is a good brand. There are many young designers who cooperate with a large number of brands. At the same time, they do not have such ambitions.

Its appearance further shook the original boundaries of fashion.

Demna Gvasalia's series designed for Balenciaga is very good, Gucci's Alessandro is also excellent -- yes, Demna Gvasalia has learned a lot, but now who cares about it? Maybe there is no real creativity in this era. Good stylists are enough.

Who do you think will take over Wakubo Rei?

Reporter: I'm afraid I can't think of anyone. The past achievements may be difficult to surpass. So many fashion people began to collect classic works in the past. For example, in Melbourne, there is a shop and website with dot COMME, COMME des GAR ONS ONS, Junya Watanabe and other brands, and they even have 1997 Lump / Bump Series in spring and summer. Besides, in the focus of niche, avant-garde designer brand second-hand trading website Grailed, the Bump is also a favorite brand of hardcore fashion lovers.

Adrian Joffe: I don't know if you're talking about what I've heard before. I'd like to see them.

Is it in Melbourne? I'll let my colleagues over there look for it tomorrow.

Thank you.

Reporter: so have you considered the introduction of the official archives of COMME des GAR ONS? For example, LN-CC has made repeated series with Raf Simons and others.

Adrian Joffe: No, that's too much energy.

When we opened the guerrilla store in Berlin, we put some files in the past, but it was too much trouble. It was enough to do it once.

Besides, is it not spontaneous to do these things outside, whether it's collecting or reselling.

Reporter: you and MS. Wakubo Rei's marriage relationship is special, has been in a state of separation, and I also heard that you do not like to collect works of art, but this seems to be a lot of fashion people's hobby, and COMME des GAR ONS and Dover Street Market always like to cooperate with artists.

Adrian Joffe: I like to appreciate works of art in the real scene. Appreciation or love does not mean possessions.

Material sometimes like a yoke to stop people, I live in Paris, she (Chuan Jiu Bao Ling) also has a house in Tokyo, enough.

We do not want to have property in every major city in the world.

The more material you have, the heavier your burden.

If we want to see the art exhibition, we can go to the museum and the art center.

Besides, she never felt like a Japanese, nor did I feel that I really belonged to a certain culture. Maybe for our "rootless" people, we don't need to get along with so-called common points, such as collecting art works, buying luxury cars and buying yachts.

Reporter: but we are all in a material world, especially in the fashion world today. The proportion of hype has almost reached its peak. Do you think there is a contradiction between Zen Buddhism learning and the world you work in?

Adrian Joffe: when I was in Japan, I learned and learned the meaning of Zen and Buddhism. She helped me stay awake, so that I could distinguish truth from falsehood.

For three years, I used meditation to get calm, especially when I felt I was going crazy.

I dare not say that I am a devout Buddhist, but I agree with many philosophies.

Reporter: for example, in China, there is a common saying that if you want to be born first, you will have to go through the flashy and the worldly things that you can't avoid.

Adrian Joffe: I agree with 100 percent.

Interviewer: but you like traveling very much.

Adrian Joffe: Yes, we like to go to different places, to know, to experience different people and things, to buy fun things...

Travel can release us from the Comfort Zone.

Reporter: have you thought about the next travel plan?

Adrian Joffe: for now, I just want to stay at home. I'm exhausted.