Ma Yun Talked About Topics Such As Alibaba, China, Trump And The United States, Globalization And Trade.

Ma Yun is not only a "net red entrepreneur" in China, but also swept across the other side of the ocean. What people are more concerned about is his business strategy.

According to the world clothing shoes and hats net, Ma Yun is in the world. Davos The special session of the forum was interviewed by writer Andrew Ros Sorkin. Dialogue centered around Alibaba China, Trump and the United States, globalization and trade. This hot dialogue attracted many people to watch.

Ma Yun revealed that he and Trump discussed SMEs, agricultural products and Sino US trade, especially focusing on the sale of American enterprises through the Alibaba network to Asia, which will create a large number of jobs for them. The consensus reached by them is small and medium-sized enterprises, developing the central and western regions, and helping local farmers and small and medium-sized enterprises to export to China.

Although Trump has recently made many companies promise to create jobs, Ma said: "the employment created by Ali is not directly employed by us. Alibaba has 45 thousand employees. We can not invite 1 million people. I can not imagine that we can manage 1 million people." Ma Yun also talked about his views on the loss of jobs in the United States in the past.

On the strong boycott of restructuring globalization. Ma Yun said, "I think globalization is good, but globalization needs to be optimized. This is a problem that President Trump wants to solve. I think globalization should be universal. In the past 30 years, globalization has been controlled by 6 large enterprises. 100 years ago, it was controlled by several kings. If we can support the cross-border operations of 600 000 companies in the next 30 years? If we can support 2000 000 SMEs across the border in the next 30 years? "

He further explained that WTO is great, but it is mainly for developed countries and their enterprises. Design For SMEs, there is no chance. What he wants is to build eWTP (Electronic World Trade Platform, the global e-commerce platform) to support young people and SMEs, and they can conduct cross-border spanactions on the Internet through mobile phones and the Internet.

In addition, at the Davos forum, President Xi mentioned that China should take the responsibility as the world's second largest economy and said that China's imports will reach US $8 trillion in the next 5 years. In this regard, Ma Yun excitedly said: "as a Chinese, I am also pleased with his commitments. This is the first time I have heard the Chinese leaders make quantitative commitments, because China is spanforming from exports to imports. If we can reach a specific data target, this will be a huge change for China and the world."

Although China has also benefited from WTO, there are still areas where it is not open. He believes that China should be more open and more confident in the future.

After talking about these macroscopical questions, the conversation focused on Alibaba. Is Amazon's business model right or Alibaba's right, or will the two companies be in the middle? Ma Yun said: "I hope both sides are right, because the world is not just a business model. We need all kinds of models. People who work for a certain pattern must believe in this pattern. I believe what I do. "

He thinks: "Alibaba and Amazon are different. Amazon is more like an empire. It controls all links and buys from selling. Our philosophy is to build an ecosystem. Our philosophy is to empower others to help them sell and service, so that they can be more powerful than we are, so that our partners, 100 thousand brands and SMEs can have the power to compete with Microsoft and IBM because of our technology and innovation. We believe that through Internet technology, we can enable every enterprise to become Amazon. "

In this dialogue, we also talked about fake goods on the Alibaba platform. For the fight against counterfeiting, Ma Yun thought: "fighting against counterfeiting is a struggle against greed of human nature. It is not easy at all, nor can it end, but we must continue to fight. We invest 2000 full-time personnel every year, investing 1 billion yuan a year in the fight against counterfeiting. It is impossible to end the war within two years. If people continue to criticize, it is important that we are happy with progress. "

In addition, in the fight against counterfeiting, Ali also used big data, and put big data into the credit system such as sesame credit. Whether it's a mortgage, a love affair or a car rental, the credit score will be reflected. Ma Yun hopes that if you buy and sell fake products in the future, sesame credit will also be reflected.

Finally, linking up with Hollywood, Ma Yun talked about the development strategy of Alibaba. Every five years, the company will make a strategic review and look forward to the next 30 years and 10 years. All strategic questions ask themselves a question, whether to solve social problems? The company believes that the more social problems you solve, the more successful you will be. The second question is, will the project succeed in ten years? The company will do it. If you can succeed in a month or a year, you won't have to do it.

Why did we march into Hollywood? Ma Yun said, "five years ago, we had a big debate about what China needs most in the next 10 years and 20 years. The final decision is happiness and health, dual H strategy. Hollywood movies can bring people happiness. No one is happy now, the rich are not happy, the poor are not happy. At least watching movies can make people happy. I think we should work with Hollywood. "

"At present, we have only been doing this for 2 years and 8 years. I want my company to be more than an electricity supplier, but to give people inspiration. I get a lot of inspiration from the movie. My favorite movie is "Agam". Life is hard. This is what I learned from it. I got a lot of inspiration. In the past 17 years, people say I am a madman, you are crazy to do something impossible! I said to myself, Agam said, continue to do, do not care about other people's ideas. Agam also said that no one can earn money, and people earn money by catching shrimps. So we serve small businesses. "

In addition to the company's future plans, Ma also talked about personal life plans. He said, "I should retire while I am young. I have a lot of things to do, I want to do charity, want to be a teacher, want to do environmental protection. The world is so beautiful, why do I always want to be Alibaba group CEO, I came to the world not to work, but to the world to enjoy my life. I don't want to die in the office, but I want to be on the sunny beach.

The following is a record of dialogue:

Sorkin: we will have questions and answers. Talk about topics such as Alibaba, China, Trump and the United States, globalization and trade. Welcome Mr. Ma Yun again. You have just visited Trumpt tower and met with Hou President Donald Trump. Can you introduce this meeting?

Ma Yun: this meeting is fruitful, much better than I expected.

Sorkin: what do you anticipate?

Ma Yun: I've heard a lot about him as well as people. I've seen a lot of news about him. After entering, he felt that he was open minded and willing to listen to my views. I am very happy about the results of the talks. He offered to send me downstairs. I think he should be very happy about the outcome of the meeting.

Sorkin: actually, did you call him or did he call you? How did this meeting come about?

Ma Yun: This is also my question. One day, someone asked me if you wanted to meet with the president. I said, really, I'm not ready yet. I don't know what to talk about. A few days later, I received several more times. A friend sent me an email asking me the same thing. I thought, maybe I should talk about it. At least Trump might be happy with what I said, so I went. We talked about small and medium enterprises, agricultural products and Sino US trade, especially focusing on American enterprises selling to Asia through our network, which will create a large number of jobs for them.

Sorkin: do you promise to create 1 million jobs for the United States in the next five years, not Alibaba?

Ma Yun: we don't hire. Alibaba has 45 thousand employees. We can't invite 1 million people. I can't imagine that we can manage 1 million people.

Sorkin: please talk about how you see Sino US relations. How do you comment on Trump's previous remarks on China's manipulation of currency? Did you talk about this during the meeting?

Ma Yun: in American freedom of speech, he can say anything he wants to say, I respect and understand. But I also have my own view that we will not debate Sino US trade and manipulation, but we have reached some common understanding: small and medium-sized enterprises, developing the central and western regions, and helping local farmers and small and medium-sized enterprises to export to China. We will not talk about the loss of jobs in the United States to Mexico, China and so on. Can I share my views?

First, when I graduated from college 30 years ago, we heard about the beautiful strategy of the United States, outsourcing manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, and outsourcing services to India. There is a book called "the world is flat," and the author is Thomas Friedman. I think this is a perfect strategy. The United States says that it wants to control intellectual property rights, technology, and brand and hand over the lower level of work to other parts of the world. This is a great strategy.

Second, American international companies make millions of dollars through globalization, and the top 100 companies in the United States are amazing. When I was graduating from college, I wanted to buy Motorola's BB machine at a price of 250 dollars, my salary was only 10 dollars per month, and the cost of making BB was only 8 dollars. Over the past 30 years, Microsoft, CISCO, and IBM have made tens of millions of dollars in total, making more money than China's four biggest banks, adding more than China Mobile, China Unicom and so on. Their market value has increased by more than 100% over the past 30 years.

So where did the money go? As a businessman, I am very concerned about the balance sheet, and I care about where and where money comes from. In the past 30 years, the United States has spent 14 trillion and 200 billion dollars in 13 wars. If these funds are spent on investment in infrastructure, helping white collar workers and blue collar workers, no matter how good your strategy is, you should invest in the people. Not everyone has the chance to go to Harvard, like I can't. We should invest money for those who can't go to school.

What I am curious about is that when I was young, I heard that there are large manufacturing enterprises such as Ford and Boeing in the United States, and in the past 20 years, Silicon Valley and Wall Street have been heard, and funds have gone to Wall Street. Then, in 2008, the financial crisis happened, which cost 19 trillion and 200 billion dollars, which was a huge sum of money, robbed white collar workers and destroyed 34 million of the world's employment. If the money does not flow to Wall Street, instead of investing in the Midwest and developing the industry there will be great changes. No other country has stolen your job opportunities. This is your strategy. You have not thought and allocated funds properly. That's my view.

Sorkin: now we see a strong boycott about restructuring globalization. In fact, most discussions in Davos are centered around this topic. Boycott took place in the United States, but President Xi Jinping came to Davos yesterday. You are also a member of his team. What do you think of his speech?

Ma Yun: globalization is a good thing. The United States is a developed country that teaches us how to globalize. I remember when we joined the WTO around 2001, we were all worried that if international brands and products came to China to destroy our industry and let us lose our jobs, then persuaded us, 20 years later, you said it was a terrible thing.

I think globalization is good, but globalization needs to be optimized. This is a problem that President Trump wants to solve. I think globalization should be universal. In the past 30 years, globalization has been controlled by 6 large enterprises. 100 years ago, it was controlled by several kings. If we can support the cross-border operation of 600 000 enterprises in the next 30 years? If we can support 2000 000 SMEs across the border in the next 30 years, we believe that globalization should be inclusive.

Sorkin: do you think the things mentioned by President Xi will happen? China has represented the Orient for many years. Now if the United States will continue to act on behalf of all people?

Ma Yun: President Xi said yesterday that this is the best era and the worst. The world needs new leaders, but new leaders mean to work hand in hand. This is my understanding. New leaders do not need to be specific to teach you what to do or what to do, but the whole world needs to be united.

As a Chinese businessman, I like and I am very proud of what chairman mentioned yesterday. As a businessman, I hope that the whole world can shoulder responsibilities and cooperate together. As a Chinese, I am also pleased with his commitments. Yesterday he mentioned China as the second largest economy in the world and should take the responsibility. This is the first time that I have heard the Chinese leaders make quantitative commitments. He said that our imports will reach US $8 trillion in the next 5 years. This is exciting for me, because China is spanforming from exports to imports. If we can reach a specific data target, this will be a huge change for China and the world.

Sorkin: Today China is more interested in globalization, because the benefits it will bring will continue to support China's growth in the "developed countries". What do you think?

Ma Yun: first of all, the WTO rules are not formulated by China, nor are they formulated for China. What I want to change is that in the past, WTO was designed for large enterprises, and only large enterprises could participate in it. China has also benefited a lot from opening up. I think China should learn one thing. In the past, China could grow because we opened up to the world, if we could continue to open up. (but not completely open, for example, American enterprises need to cooperate with local enterprises when they want to enter China). That is why I say that China also has its problems. There are problems in the world. China, of course, has many problems. China should be open and confident.

Yesterday, President Xi's speech made me very confident that he was ready to open China to the world. This is my suggestion. We should solve problems through business groups and negotiations. China has joined the WTO for more than ten years, and I think it needs to be reexamined as an enterprise, a country or a whole world. It's not just because of imbalances - we can stop.

Sorkin: what did you propose to eWTP?

Ma Yun: WTO is great, but it is mainly designed for developed countries and enterprises, and has no opportunity for SMEs. We hope to establish eWTP, ElectronicWorldTradePlatform to support young people and SMEs, and they can cross border spanactions on the Internet through mobile phones and the Internet. Besides, WTO is also a very interesting institution. It can make the 20 governments come together and reach a consensus on one thing. This is simply impossible. I can not imagine that all sides can reach a consensus. Business should be decided by businessmen. I think eWTP should sit down and discuss, negotiate and reach consensus with the business people, then get the support from the government.

Sorkin: about Alibaba, about your own business model, I think most westerners may not understand. Can I try to make a comparison between Amazon and Amazon? This may be unfair to you.

But what I find interesting is that what Amazon looks after, I feel more like a business model of heavy assets. They buy planes and want to have the entire supply chain; while Alibaba looks at retail sales, on the contrary, you do not want to build warehouses or self logistics companies. What do you think of it? Geoffrey Bezos (founder and chief executive of Amazon) is right, or are you right, or will you meet in the middle?

Ma Yun: I hope both sides are right, because the world is not just a business model. If the world has only one "correct" business model, the world will be very boring. We need all kinds of models. People who work for a certain pattern must believe in this pattern. I believe what I do.

Unlike Amazon, Amazon is more like an empire that controls all its links and buys from selling. Our philosophy is to build ecosystems. Our philosophy is to empower others to help them sell and service, to ensure that they can be more powerful than we are, to ensure that our partners, 100 thousand brands and SMEs can compete with Microsoft and IBM because of our technology and innovation. We believe that through Internet technology, we can enable every enterprise to become Amazon.

Last year, our GMV (merchandise trade volume) exceeded US $550 billion. If we want to hire employees to take care of the delivery of these goods, we need 5 million people. It is impossible for us to send 5 million people to sell the goods on our platform. The only way we can take is to empower the service companies and logistics companies to ensure that they can operate efficiently, make profits and employ more people.

Sorkin: if you don't own the supply chain, can you guarantee high efficiency? Amazon is now able to deliver goods home within hours.

Ma Yun: last year we realized the 125 cities in China. 10 years ago, the mail from Beijing to Hangzhou would take 8 days. Now it will be delivered from Beijing to Inner Mongolia city in 12 hours, and the logistics efficiency will be improved. You can't expect to achieve such progress one day. We are patient enough.

In 2016, double 11 sold 17 billion US dollars on our platform, and we sent 600 million packages in 3 days. This is what is happening and what we are proud of, not how much money we earn, but how much energy we have. We can make technology more inclusive, and every small business can use it. This is my dream.

I founded my first company in China in 1992. A small company failed to apply for $5000 from the bank for 3 months. Today, with the development of science and technology, we can do empowerment. This is what I want to do.

Sorkin: a critique of Alibaba is still a question of infringement. Intellectual property rights are a big problem in China, but Alibaba is an important target of criticism. What progress do you think Alibaba has made and how to view other countries' regulators, including the United States, are still questioning Alibaba?

Ma Yun: first of all, when you have such a large scale of business, you must learn to accept criticism. You must listen and judge what is right and what is wrong.

Second, as an e-business platform that can scale 10 million small businesses, we will not be like Amazon Buy, especially the $550 billion traded products. You can not check all of them. This is the problem of the e-business mode itself.

Third, in the past 17 years, we have been a leader in the fight against counterfeiting and intellectual property protection. But we are Internet Co. We have no law enforcement power. We found that someone was selling fake goods. We could remove him from the platform, but we could not arrest him. Last year, we sent 400 fake elements to prison and 370 million fake products. We are not only the leader of counterfeiting, but we use big data to monitor who is buying, who is manufacturing, who is selling, and where the address is. We are happy now that the world, especially the Chinese government, is aware of this problem.

The good thing is that today you ask these "criminal gangs", the counterfeiters and the sellers. They say they can go to any platform, but now they dare not go to Taobao Tmall, because our big data technology can find out who they are and where they are, and submit them to the police and capture them.

Sorkin: have you said anything about the quality of counterfeit goods before?

Ma Yun: the quality of counterfeit goods I mentioned is not to praise the fake products, but that after so many years, these brand businesses must be very careful, because the quality of fake products is increasing substantially, which is very frightening. That's the difference. You find counterfeiters, some people say, this is a fake, you go to third party to identify whether it is fake or not, and find that sometimes the quality of fakes is better. Another frightening thing is that a brand said that you were selling fake goods. We looked for a long time to find the problem but couldn't find it. Later we sold a product from the flagship store and sent it to the inspection. They said it was a fake. This is very puzzling.

It is not easy or impossible to fight against the greed of human nature, but we must continue to fight. We invest 2000 full-time personnel every year, investing 1 billion yuan a year in the fight against counterfeiting. It is impossible to end the war within two years. If people continue to criticize, it is important that we are happy with progress. If people praise me, say Ma Yun you are great! I know it is not great. Or Alibaba is great! We are not great. We are only a 17 year old company. But if they say that you have done nothing on the fake, no, we are doing a lot of things, but you don't have to argue, you just have to do what you believe.

Sorkin: you talked about the use of big data in the fight against counterfeits. On the other hand, you also used big data in the credit system, so that those who could not get the loan could get loans. We talk about sesame credit. If a person may not have a credit record in some trading market, how do we know who can get the loan? Who should not get it?

Ma Yun: first of all, before that, we had a system to teach computers how to discriminate fake goods and fraud on Alipay. We have been doing this for ten years. Now people call this AI AI. We are a data company. 8 years ago, we told ourselves that we could not be an electric supplier. We wanted to be a data company. We had data on consumers, manufacturers, logistics, spanactions and so on. But how to make good use of these data for the benefit of society? Many Chinese small businesses are very good and have good credit, but there is no credit system suitable for them.

How can we use our data to build a credit system so that everyone can get the credit system? This has been very strong in the past four years. We have given him a credit rating for all the people we serve. In the past 5 years, we have put 5 million small business loans, even though they only require 5000 dollars in loans. 3 minutes can decide whether to lend, how much money to give, 1 seconds to arrive, no need to contact anyone, we call this 310. Sesame credit can also be the capital of love affairs. The mother-in-law said to her future son-in-law that you are going to be in love with my daughter, and show me your sesame credit score. If people want to rent a car, they will be asked to see the sesame credit score. If they do not pay back, the credit score will be reduced and they may not be able to rent. This is the system we want to build. If you buy and sell fake products, sesame credit will also be reflected.

Sorkin: the last question has many guesses about your march into Hollywood. The names of you and Alibaba appeared in several blockbusters at the beginning of the year. What is the ambition of Alibaba to enter Hollywood?

Ma Yun: every five years, we will make a strategic review and look forward to the next 30 years and 10 years. All strategic questions ask themselves a question, whether they solve social problems? We believe that the more social problems we solve, the more successful you will be. The second question is, will the project succeed in ten years? Let's do it. If you can succeed in a month or a year, you won't have to do it. How can it be successful in a year and a month?

Five years ago, we had a big debate about what China needs most in the next 10 years and 20 years. The final decision is happiness and health, dual H strategy. Hollywood movies can bring people happiness. No one is happy now, the rich are not happy, the poor are not happy. At least watching movies can make people happy. I think we should cooperate with Hollywood. There are many heroes in China, Chinese heroes are always dead, and American heroes will never die. If all heroes are dead, who wants to be heroes, I want my heroes to survive. We should learn more.

We have only done it for 2 years and 8 years. I want to make my company more than an e-commerce, but a revelation. I get a lot of inspiration from the movie. My favorite movie is "Agam". Life is hard. This is what I learned from it. I got a lot of inspiration. In the past 17 years, people say I am a madman, you are crazy, you can't do what you can't do! You are a fool, how can you do this mode? Amazon is the mode, EBay mode, why is this mode of Alibaba? I told myself, Agam said, continue to do, do not care about other people's ideas. Agam also said that no one can earn money, and people earn money by catching shrimps. So we serve small businesses.

Audience: how do you ensure that you will not mess up people's lives? You are the one who has the power to make decisions. How do you ensure that you will not control the whole credit system?

Ma Yun: first of all, I am not sure that this is an uncertain world. Every day is uncertain. The only certainty is yesterday. I don't know if I will become dictatorial or stupid. That's why I think I should retire while I am young. I have a lot of things to do, I want to do charity, want to be a teacher, want to do environmental protection. The world is so beautiful, why do I always want to be Alibaba group CEO, I came to the world not to work, but to the world to enjoy my life. I don't want to die in the office, but I want to be on the sunny beach.

Audience: do you think China will enter a trade war? Will the Alibaba be affected if the Trump administration is fighting a trade war with China?

Ma Yun: I think China and the United States should not trade wars. There should never be any trade wars. I think we should give the trump government a bit of time. He is an open-minded person. He is listening to everyone's voice. I think it is very easy to start a war, but it is very difficult or even impossible to end the war. Do you see the Iran war and the war in Afghanistan? Is it over? I believe one thing, when the trade stops, the world will be in trouble. Trade enables people to communicate and exchange culture and values. If China and the United States agree, Alibaba's business model will be destroyed. If this can stop the trade war, I will also be willing to destroy Alibaba's business model. How can you imagine that there is a trade war between the world's largest economy and the world's second largest economies? This will be a disaster for the world. If we can stop the war, we should do anything to stop it.

Ma Yun: can I conclude with a few words? I would like to make a final suggestion to all of you here. All governments need to pay attention to the importance of the next 30 years to the world. Every technology revolution takes 50 years. In the first 20 years, technology companies appeared and 30 years later, technology was applied. So let's focus on the next 30 years. In the past 20 years, eBay, Amazon, Facebook, Alibaba, Google... Very good, but the most important thing is to make technology inclusive and change the world. This is the next 30 years. Let's keep an eye on those 30 years old because they are the Internet generation. They will change the world and become the builders of the world. Third, let's take note of small businesses whose employees may still be less than 30. A company of 30 and 30 will make the world a better place.

Sorkin: Thank you very much, Mr. Ma Yun. Thank you!

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