Do We Need Luxuries Today?

Distinguished guest:

Gao Chaodong moderator

He Gang, editor in chief of Finance and Economics

Luo Tianhao independent scholar, former senior fellow of Cheung Kong Business School

Blue Fang guests:

Ren Jin, Deputy Secretary General of China Jewelry & Jade Jewelry Industry Association

Yuan Yue zero research consultant group chairman

Deputy director, luxury center, Zhou Tingwai economic and Trade University

Moderator: Hello, audience friends. Welcome to the financial debate program "opponent", I am Wang Kai. Louis Weedon, GUCCI, Chanel, these brands have a common name is luxury, luxury goods now seem to be getting closer and closer to our lives. Even if we do not own our lives, our friends will have one or two. As a luxury consumer country, China has surpassed the United States and ranks second among the world's luxury goods ranks. It is known that luxury goods are expensive, what exactly do they sell? What are we buying luxuries? This is the first round of debate on our hands today. During the debate, six guests from the two sides of the red and blue came on the scene. The media observation group had their questions to join our program, and gossiping and speaking.

High tide East: time is the most luxurious, I think consumption luxury is definitely 80% because of the problem of face.

Moderator: applause, the first guest of the blue Fang. He is Mr. Ren Jin, Deputy Secretary General of China jewelry and jade jewelry industry association.

Ren Jin: buying luxury goods is for the sake of Pursuit of products The inner noble quality.

High tide East: please look at a survey. Up to now, 52.2% have thought that China's consumption of luxury goods is a symbol of status and status. What is "identity" and "status"? In the wake of such a mainstream view, at present, China has reached an extremely materialized society. Its appearance has several aspects: first, let's talk about the rich. Of course, when it comes to rich people, there are some of them, such as coal bosses. Coal bosses buying cars on the spot is like this. When you see a favorite car, how much is it? How much is it? 800 thousand, delay time? Do you have two million? Tell me quickly that the booth will start paying after buying two million and two million and ask the sales quietly. What brand is this brand of car, he only uses price to discuss his consumption. Then Mr. Lin Yutang said, "what is a face? Chinese face can be washed, shaved, and can stay. We can do everything in order to win face."

Ren Jin: I heard a little bit about what Chao Dong said just now. Superior quality Life is what everyone wants, do you want LV's bag, do you want Land Rover's car, anyway, I think, maybe I didn't. As one of my goals, what is wrong? If the owners of Shanxi coal are normal enough to earn money, what is wrong with him? Does he have to buy a flat pedal to go to kindergartens and pick up children at school? This is a bit of an absolute thing. If we are lawfully and reasonably paid, we should encourage high quality to constantly understand what luxuries are, what to call good things, and what to do, and then to spend. This is a good thing. It is beneficial to the progress of society, the development of productive forces and the progress of products. From this perspective, luxury goods should represent the best quality design, the most innovative technology and the best quality materials, because our primary commodity market is too many fakes and poor quality products, so people dare not trust those without brands.

The last question is Luxury goods The content behind culture, history and art is very rich. The brands you just mentioned were the first LV to make boxes, and the horses were saddled. These people gradually developed in the past hundred years. Every detail is considered, the fine and consideration of life is a special luxury, so I urge you to taste luxury, to understand luxury and luxury.

Simple conversation, results Li Li said that Longines form launched the Made in for the Chinese market, just like BMW will launch the M series tiger brand car, the result is very unsmooth in China, specially for the Chinese consumer custom or specially made watch also represents a kind of high quality, two or three years went bankrupt, the Chinese do not recognize, our Chinese recognized what is, we recognize that you sell the top luxury goods in China is not in Europe and America also has, we must conform to the international standard, we really study its quality, or the brand value exactly is, what many people did not have this time or did not have to pursue one level and the height, more time is the face and the comparison. High tide East: I once did a job with Li Li, vice president of Longines China.

Ren Jin: I think Longines is not a luxury in China's entire consumption level. For example, such a brand, I have also participated in their activities, released, that is really a system of excellence, they are not so simple to take a Chinese favorite style to recruit Chinese people like, may have Chinese flavour, is entirely Chinese dragon series of things, why is it recognized by everyone, because it can stand, if it is very strong, then I think Rolls-Royce has to make a Chinese flavor car, it will also be able to sell well.

High tide East: how to understand the so-called luxury goods, or put it in China's national conditions, do you think Longines watch is right or wrong? I don't think much of it. In China, a common seagull watch and Shanghai table are not luxuries, but they can also be regarded as shareholders. As long as a few people can own non life necessities, such a definition can be understood as luxury goods, the top 50, the top two for Chinese people. {page_break}

High tide East: iPhone4 is not a luxury. For peasant friends, it is a luxury for children in mountain area. But there are almost one hand in a big city. What is the problem? Do I have to use it? Do I have to watch time to watch it? No, I have it on my cell phone, but I must have it. This is the problem of face and identity. So the appearance of these senior dealers put forward a slogan that we do not sell time, and it is not time to sell the watch, what is it?

Ren Jin: we take a thing to buy, for example, the two table is very close, the high imitation table is also a kind of pursuit for luxury goods, but you are like taking white just to imitate white gold, which makes people feel unrealistic. White ring is very like silver ring, platinum is four hundred fifty grams, platinum is several thousand pieces per ton, you will not bring a white ring to say that I am a platinum ring, this is a psychological problem, not only face.

Host: whether luxury is bought or not? We all know that the price of luxury goods is generally more expensive. We can see from the components of the price that luxury goods purchased in China are definitely more expensive than those of the same brand abroad. Why? Some people say that apart from the circulation in the middle, a very important part is taxation. Then the luxury of buying luxury goods should not be paid for heavy taxes. That is the second round of debate. We have invited second guests from the Red Square. He is the chief executive editor of Finance and economics.

He Gang: since it is a face saving, don't be afraid that the price is too high. The tax must be collected.

Moderator: have invited the second guests of blue Fang, Mr. Yuan Yue, a zero point research and consulting group.

Yuan Yue: I think the VAT for luxury goods is not only unwise but also unwise.

He Gang: just like the discussion has just mentioned, luxury has an important characteristic, not everyone's daily necessities, so increasing heavy taxes on necessities will not affect most people's daily life. The second luxury has an important function, that is, buyers are mainly people with relatively high incomes. From the perspective of economics and practical investigation, for those who have relatively high incomes, when they buy high-grade non essentials, their sensitivity to price is relatively low. That is to say, 100 thousand yuan to buy one thing and 110 thousand to buy one thing does not make a difference to them. Third, from the point of view of Taxation, taxation is an important function. For the sake of fair income regulation, it is for the high income group that the increase of heavy tax on consumption of luxury goods will help the finance to concentrate more money on the hands and to subsidize or transfer the low-income people. Here we analyze two kinds of taxes in detail. One is to limit his consumption. For example, he is harmful to the body, such as wine or tobacco, especially the high-end liquor or tobacco. The purpose of increasing the heavy tax on them is to make you consume less. The second category is, indeed, it may be good for people, but because of its high price and relatively scarce resources, it is a minority service. Of course, there are third categories, some of which used to be luxuries, but with the increase of their income and consumption ability, they have become mass consumer goods. For example, the skin care products used by our ladies are luxury goods 30 years ago. They are heavily taxed. When it becomes a universal demand of a common public, the tax can be avoided at this time, so the conclusion is: as long as it is a luxury,

Yuan Yue: I totally disagree with Mr. He Gang on the viewpoint of taxation. First of all, in fact, our luxuries are already an open market in the international market, and we allow Chinese people to go out for public travel. If you practice heavy tax policy, Chinese people will go abroad to buy, resulting in the purchasing power outflow. We often say that China's domestic demand is very small, especially for GDP, especially domestic demand, and high-end domestic demand is realized outside. If so, we travel abroad seventy million years a year, and buy everywhere, and our country's resources are lost. The real market rationality is to think about different levels of people, and at the same time design products at different levels, and at the same time obtain product benefits from different levels. In the same way, public luxury goods really serve the public, but usually the value added is relatively low, but they are hard to earn but can not earn a lot of money. But the development of high-end products is especially high. Especially, the development of luxury goods is very high. If the development and the middle development of this field are very important, low taxes should be adopted, especially when the tax policy is encouraged at the early stage. This will lead to the development of the high-end parts. When the high-end development is developed and the surplus value is more, our country will really accumulate wealth instead of increasing it before sweating. This is the rational rule of the market. Just now, Mr. ho represents a kind of public sentiment, not a real market sentiment, not a real market rationality. The second point is that when we see this market at this time, of course, most of you stand honestly, it seems that we seem to think for the most part. In fact, this is wrong. We market today is multilevel.

Yuan Yue: why not wise in this place, the third point, the way of heavy taxes, to receive taxes from enterprises, and then to distribute them in some way. In fact, the national tax collection efficiency is very low, and the normal tax revenue is put back, only 1/3 of the original value of the market. Today, tax collection is not paid attention to. It is very difficult to let the government tax encourage a luxury enterprise. However, it is very easy for you to let the government's tax break across several luxury enterprises, so today our heavy tax policy will lead to the birth of the local luxury goods enterprises in this field.

Yuan Yue: it is still necessary to return to the rational question of the market. Many wealthy people will go to emigration. For many reasons, it is very important that the public regulation policy is rational.

Yuan Yue: it is hard for a white-collar to save a little money and raise such a high tax. The cost of obtaining luxuries is actually too high, so in this sense, it is not unreasonable prices, but unreasonable taxes. If in this case, a white collar would rather run to Hongkong or run to Paris, even if I had to pay for the plane ticket, I would rather go there and buy it. You can't let him go out.

Host: what do you think of this point, He Gang?

He Gang: the total consumption of luxury goods in China in 2009 is about 156 billion of China's total consumption. Half of them are consumed abroad, such as Mr. Yuan, but there are still nearly eighty billion of them consumed in heavy taxes in China. That is to say, when they buy, they do not care much whether they have heavy taxes or no heavy taxes. Second, when you talk about tourism, indeed, if I have a very concentrated shopping time, I would like to buy in bulk, calculate the possibility of tax exemption, go to Paris for a little while, and do a good shopping. My question, tomorrow, Mr. Yuan will see a very important customer. Just when the other party likes a very interesting pen, will it be sold in the boutique at the bottom of the shop? If you want to think about five thousand yuan, do you want to buy it? Although you know that there are two thousand yuan tax, there is a natural consumption, and there is a large number of Chinese consumer groups. It is not still necessary to take overseas tours in order to avoid a little tax. Overseas tourism tax avoidance is a reason, but not the most important and only.

And the necessities are high, so its income tax is naturally high, so we have already been deducted from heavy taxes, but now our import policy is similar to punitive tariffs, plus 100% or 200%, and some 300% tax, so it is an overweight tax. Then, a super heavy tax is bought. It is originally 18 yuan and a table. If you buy 48 yuan, you can buy it. How much do you want to fly, how much is the first class? How much money do I have to make all the facilities there? Yuan Yue: luxury goods are also heavily taxed abroad. How does it come from heavy taxes? Because its added value is very high, actually it can be seen that its profit is relative to other fashionable products.

He Gang: speaking of several points, I agree with you. If the concrete tax system of China has just exchanged with Chao Dong, China's tax system has its place of repeated taxation, it has its unreasonable place. In fact, we say that the luxury tax includes two parts, one just mentioned the import tax of luxury goods. The difference between the price of domestic luxury goods and foreign prices is mainly in this place. The import tax is not heavy enough. This is indeed questionable. So it is questionable that the global purchasing power of RMB is enhanced, and the national income is increased. The appropriate reduction of import tax may have its reason. Even if the reduction is made, even from 100% to 100%, it is still a heavy tax. The second is the consumption tax. Indeed, I think it is necessary. Here we know that there is an important reason for the luxury goods. Our whole country and the tax system are encouraging us to spend more on luxury goods, or we do not encourage people to spend more on luxuries.

He Gang: it is possible that Mr. Yuan confused several of our debates on a theme. What we said today is just like what we said just now. Our current market consumption is ten accumulation, and most of the thunder and luxury goods come from abroad, not domestic. Therefore, our target of increasing heavy taxes is also those foreign brands, not domestic brands. Second yuan has mentioned that these luxuries have been won after the market competition has been eliminated for hundreds of years. That is to say, it is not by support, not simply by nurture, by protection, by love, but by competition, so if China's luxury brands can not be played out in the cruel global competition, even if the protection is fought, they will eventually die. {page_break}

Ren Jin: I return to the tax revenue, I say, the high quality luxury goods cost is very high, if you go to eat, a dish of vegetables and a dish, such as abalone, which has a high profit rate, and sure that the profit rate of vegetables is high, then you collect taxes from the vegetables or the abalone is high, so luxury goods do not mean no cost. When the cost of making money is higher, the cost is higher, the profit rate is lower, only the profit is high. In the case of paying taxes, the same tax has already been lost.

He Gang: tax is for fairness, not for the first part is for a small number of industries and enterprises. Do they have enough so-called development space, so-called support policy? The core meaning of luxury tax collection is that this consumption is a minority from the government society, it is not encouraging, it is not supported. It's not to encourage people to spend more on luxury goods. Instead, we should encourage people to consume luxury goods as little as possible. The mainstream of social consumption is to advocate frugality rather than extravagance and waste.

Moderator: we actually see some magazines, fashion magazines, all kinds of financial magazines, and the advertisements on the top of the page are filled with luxury goods. All of these can be seen. Besides, the white collar workers who are not very well paid by social public opinion, who usually take the bus, will also buy some facilities. This is a kind of encouragement, or is it a natural market demand for buying, should we encourage the consumption of luxury goods? This is our third round of debate. First of all, we should invite the third guests of the Red Square, Luo Tianhao, an independent scholar of the Institute of advanced studies of the Yangtze River Business School.

Luo Tianhao: China's poor are too few to encourage luxury consumption.

Moderator: Thank you, applause, please come out of the third guests of blue Fang. She is Zhou Ting, deputy director of the luxury center of the University of foreign trade and economics. Zhou Ting specializes in luxury goods.

Zhou Ting: luxury and freedom are the two gifts that are always pursued. The Chinese market is duty bound to be the Savior of luxury goods.

Luo Tianhao: so I first did not encourage consumption of luxuries from consumption. The first one, according to authoritative research, China's rich people account for about fourth of the world's total, and China's per capita consumption is one hundred of the world's total income. Under such circumstances, China has become the second largest luxury country in the world, indicating that wealth is very concentrated. The gap between the rich and the poor is very serious. It shows that consumption is two extremes, the first is high-end consumption, second is a large number of low-end consumption, and there is a lack of mass consumption. Second, the industrial organization is abnormal. We now encourage the production of luxury goods, and even encourage the development of high-end industries, including "12th Five-Year". I think it is a speculation, including our leather goods are Italy, clothing people in France, including the plane, the French, American, Chinese made aircraft are falling out, and people are unwilling to buy. This time is high-end, low-end Vietnam and India have robbed our market. At this time, we need the development of the middle industry most. Any country must be strong and the manufacturing industry is strong. The third world, the major powers of the world, the decline of the original big powers is due to the abnormal development of the luxury industry, including Holland, Spain and the United Kingdom, and why the United States is so strong. I tell you that apart from the big luxury countries, the comprehensive industry is the world's first. Even agriculture can not imagine that he is the number one in the world. Therefore, China needs a multi-level and reasonable industrial structure and social structure, which is normal.

　　周婷：好，其實在支持我論點開始我要問對方辯友兩個問題，第一富人不是人，富人不需要人性化對待，富人的需求可以忽略，第二個問題，如何解釋進口，剛才我們一直在糾結(jié)到底什么是奢侈品，我認為奢侈品并不特殊，代表的是一種市場水平，他是技術(shù)領先、設計領先、管理領先、消費領先的一個集中體，所以自古以來我們中國并不是把奢侈跟浪費是對等一個概念，而是奢侈和進步，這是我的研究結(jié)論，因為北宋著名的政治家先天下之憂而憂，后天下之樂而樂的范仲淹就說過，他說我拯救杭州的一個辦法就是奢靡消費觀，結(jié)果兩浙為杭州安然，其實奢侈品這個行業(yè)在整個行業(yè)是起著風向標的任務，對人類有積極的作用，其實潮東和何剛已經(jīng)證明我的觀點，為什么我們不繼續(xù)鼓勵奢侈品呢。

Luo Tianhao: on the contrary, I think the development of luxury goods is a market that squeezes domestic demand in China. Why? Because the total amount of wealth is limited. If you spend more money on luxuries, then there is no such thing as mass consumption. This is very realistic in China. China now says that the rich are very rich, and the poor are very poor. There is a saying that many people say that China is short of great entrepreneurs. I strongly disagree with this statement. Why many industries in China have no way to upgrade their industries after development. Why are the high-end consumers who are rich at home buy the top brands of foreign brands, and the most low-end consumer groups in China can only consume low-end products? So the most important middle end product.

Luo Tianhao: Yes, the imperfect consumer market, so the popularity and growth of luxury goods have squeezed the Chinese market, and the result of the wealth that should have been used for mass consumption is that they do not consume, but continue to consume.

Zhou Ting: I don't think Mr. Luo has done a good job in studying the per capita GDP, that is, the state of social structure and economic development. We have an indicator of GDP per capita of more than three thousand US dollars. After that, the consumption behavior of the whole people has changed. It should change to a state of development and enjoyment. I don't understand your point of view, so the consumption of luxury goods has squeezed the wealth of the society. I think it is just releasing some of the wealth and releasing it.